{"id":1987,"date":"2013-06-18T09:10:03","date_gmt":"2013-06-18T01:10:03","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/xvm.garphy.com\/?p=1987"},"modified":"2013-06-18T09:10:03","modified_gmt":"2013-06-18T01:10:03","slug":"hungarian-armor-part-1-44m-tas-and-tas-rohamloveg","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/xvm.garphy.com\/?p=1987","title":{"rendered":"Hungarian armor part 1 \u2013 44M Tas and Tas Rohaml\u00f6veg"},"content":{"rendered":"

\u539f\u6587: http:\/\/ftr.wot-news.com\/2013\/06\/17\/hungarian-armor-part-1-44m-tas-and-tas-rohamloveg\/<\/a><\/p>\n

\n
Posted on\u00a0Silentstalker<\/a>\u00a0\u2014\u00a032 Comments \u2193<\/a><\/div>\n<\/header>\n

 <\/p>\n

\n

Today, we are going to have a look at some of the interesting Hungarian armor pieces. Obviously, it would be logical to start with the Tur\u00e1n, or the Toldi tanks, but are a bit boring \ud83d\ude42 We\u2019ll get to them at some point later.<\/p>\n

Hungarian branch will most likely be a part of the European tank tree, as the Toldi and Tur\u00e1n tanks were one of the few EU-nations tanks that have actually seen combat (although with mixed results). Hungarian tank history is quite interesting (again, I\u2019ll get to that in some other article), but roughly it can be said that despite the attempts to build a decent tank force in WW2, Hungarian tanks and assault guns (based mostly on the Czechovak and Swedish designs, mixed with some imported German Panzer III and IV\u2019s) were obsolete by the time they arrived to the Hungarian army (Honv\u00e9ds\u00e9g). Despite the Hungarian attempts to bring the vehicles up to date (at some point blocked by Germans), a combination of obsolete vehicles and bad supply lines let to the massive destruction of Hungarian armor on Russian river Don \u2013 a defeat the army never really recovered from. Hungarian army however knew full well that their vehicles are not up to date and tried (sometimes desperately) to do something with it.<\/p>\n

Hungarian armor in World of Tanks<\/strong><\/p>\n

Hungary can basically build a branch up to tier 7 (if we combine the TD and light\/medium tank branches). It would look something like this:<\/p>\n

T1 \u2013 Straussler tanks
\nT2 \u2013 Toldi I\/II light tank
\nT3 \u2013 Toldi III light tank
\nT4 \u2013 T-21\/Tur\u00e1n I medium tank
\nT5 \u2013 Tur\u00e1n II\/III medium tank, Zrinyi I\/II
\nT6 \u2013 ????
\nT7 \u2013 44M Tas, Tas Rohaml\u00f6veg<\/p>\n

And that\u2019s it I am afraid. I haven\u2019t found any tank project for tier 8+ \u2013 that of course doesn\u2019t mean they didn\u2019t exist, but it\u2019s practically impossible to find any data on anything else outside of Hungary, so I hope Wargaming will do some serious research.<\/p>\n

44M Tas
\n
\n<\/strong><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

By 1943 two things were clear to everyone, except possibly the biggest optimists: the first one was that the Germans are in deep trouble in Russia \u2013 and the second one was that Hungarian armor is no longer capable of taking care of the newest Soviet tanks, appearing en masse on the battlefields of Russia. Especially the swarms of T-34 tanks plagued the tired Hungarian tankers, who tried to hold them off with their 40mm equipped Tur\u00e1ns (that alone was quite a feat by itself).<\/p>\n

In May 1943, a German delegation led by general Leeb did visit Hungary, to inspect the state of Hungarian armor development and to share some knowledge, gained from the fighting. The result was a joint project offer from the Germans to work on certain vehicles. In German eyes, Hungary would manufacture and supply certain parts, which would then be assembled in Germany and exported back to Hungary. Needless to say, Hungarian officers were not very happy about this \u2013 from an independent nation, Hungary would become totally dependent on German supplies (and will), when it came to armor. That was unacceptable for two reasons: one was bad experiences with German cooperation (Tur\u00e1n production was delayed several times in the past due to shortages of German equipment), second was that with such a program, Hungary would effectively become Germany\u2019s vassal state. Hungarians scrapped this idea immediately.<\/p>\n

Earlier that year (in April 1943), Hungarian committee, led by colonel N\u00e1das, visited Germany and inspected some of the armor factories. They witnessed the Panther and Tiger production and were impressed. However, by that time, the mass production of Tigers and Panthers was effectively just started, the vehicles suffered from several flaws (which were rectified only later) and it was also clear that Hungarian armor industry is in no shape to license-produce Panthers or Tigers, those tanks were simply way too sophisticated. Another idea of the committee was to actually license-produce the Panzer IV (with which the Hungarian crews were relatively happy). This too was turned down, because the army staff argued that Panzer IV is not THAT much better than Hungary\u2019s current tanks and it\u2019s simply not worth doing.<\/p>\n

These endless talks led the army to commission the development of an entirely new and locally built heavy tank from Hungarian components. It was named \u201cTas\u201d (possibly after a Hungarian warlord from 9th century) and designed in cooperation with the Weiss Manfr\u00e9d company, that was also supposed to be responsible for its production. It was loosely based on the Tur\u00e1n construction and on the paper, it was actually pretty good. Massive welded frontal armor (100-120mm sloped) paired with a powerful gun (75mm KwK L\/70) made a powerful combination. Two types of guns were actually planned: the original German-built KwK 42 from Panther and a Hungarian developed 43M 75mm gun. The vehicle was propelled by two 260hp Tur\u00e1n engines and manned by a crew of five (resembling the Panther).<\/p>\n

Tas was introduced to the Honv\u00e9ds\u00e9g command staff on 30.7.1943, with August reserved for partial improvements. The army approved the building of two prototypes \u2013 one made from classical (non-armor) steel and one completely armored. The mild steel prototype was built first in the first half of 1944 in the Weiss Manfr\u00e9d company, but it was never finished. Allegedly, the hull was ready with transmission and engine installed and the project was waiting for a turret, when the factory was bombed on 27.7.1944 by Americans. The prototype was completely destroyed. The development was moved to the Ganz factory, where the already manufactured parts were redirected to. It is unknown what happened from July to December with these parts, but in December 1944, all development and manufacture in the factory was stopped \u2013 and that was the end of the project, which was not pursued further.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

Characteristics:<\/strong><\/p>\n

(in the brackets: Panther D statistics for comparison)
\nCrew: 5 (5)
\nWeight: 38 tons (44,8)
\nLenght: 9,2 meters (8,66)
\nWidth: 3,5 meters (3,27)
\nHeight: 3 meters (2,99)
\nEngine: 2x Tur\u00e1n, 520hp in total (HL230, 700hp)
\nArmor
\nFrontal: 100-120mm (80)
\nSides: 50mm (40)
\nTurret frontal: 100mm (100)
\nTurret sides: 100mm (45)
\nTurret rear: 50mm (45)
\nArmament: 75mm KwK 42 or 75mm 43M (the same)
\nSpeed: 45km\/h (55km\/h)<\/p>\n

In World of Tanks<\/strong><\/p>\n

44M Tas is tier 7 material. Although classified as a \u201cheavy\u201d tank, it is lighter than the medium Panther and definitely nowhere near as heavy as the Tiger. As you can see, it is more heavily armored than the Panther, but lacks its sophisticated weaponry and most likely optics too. What we have here is a medium\/heavy hybrid. While its firepower would be quite low for tier 7 (150mm pen, unless it gets some unhistorical gun), the nicely angled armor would allow it to actually hold its own. The engines are a problem, but historically, Hungarians negotiated with Germans over purchasing the HL230 700hp Panther D engines. With 700hp, this 38 ton vehicle would have a decent mobility, compensating for the gun. I can see it working, possibly as a brawler.<\/p>\n

Tas Rohaml\u00f6veg<\/strong><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

Tas R\u00f6hamloveg was a tank destroyer project, developed along with the 44M Tas tank, based on the same chassis. It was started in 1944, when some of the officers involved in the 44M Tas design came up with an idea that it wouldn\u2019t be actually bad to start a project of a heavy tank destroyer along with the tank development. They were influenced no doubt by the successes of such German vehicles, that were not only extremely deadly, but also cheaper to build than regular tanks. Their silhouette was also lower, they were harder to spot, easier to set an ambush with and generally suitable for the defensive warfare both the German and Hungarian armies found themselves in.<\/p>\n

The project was (not very originally) named Tas Rohaml\u00f6veg (\u201cTas assault gun\u201d). The turret was removed from the design and the (very low) chassis was built to somewhat resemble the dreaded Jagdpanther. While the lower frontal plate (usually covered by terrain) was 20mm, the massive frontal plate was 120mm thick and very well angled. The vehicle was planned with the German 88mm KwK 43 L\/71, capable to knock out any allied tank \u2013 and two machineguns.<\/p>\n

Just like the tank, this vehicle was supposed to be built by Weiss Manfr\u00e9d. Two prototypes were ordered, but beyond that, little is known of the project. Some sources say that some parts were ordered and even manufactured, but no prototype was ever built due to the same air raid, that knocked out the Tas production.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

Characteristics:<\/strong><\/p>\n

(in the brackets: Jagdpanther statistics for comparison)
\nCrew: 5 (5)
\nWeight: 38 tons (45,5)
\nLenght: 9,5 meters (9,87)
\nWidth: 3,9 meters (3,8)
\nHeight: 2,3 meters (2,72)
\nEngine: 2x Tur\u00e1n, 520hp in total (HL230, 700hp)
\nArmor
\nFrontal: 120mm (80)
\nSides: 50mm (50)
\nArmament: 88mm PaK 43 (the same)
\nSpeed: 45km\/h (55km\/h)<\/p>\n

In World of Tanks<\/strong><\/p>\n

As you can see, it\u2019s much like the Jagdpanther, but lower, sleeker, apparently with better camo factor, possibly more agile (lighter) with the same engine, but with the original 520hp you can\u2019t expect miracles. The drawback would be the missing 105mm gun and thus somewhat lower firepower. Still, considering how cool it looks\u2026 I\u2019d play it even if it was worse in all respects \ud83d\ude42<\/p>\n

Sources:<\/strong>
\nI.Pej\u010doch \u2013 Obrn\u011bn\u00e1 technika
\nC.Kliment, D.Barn\u00e1d \u2013 Ma\u010farsk\u00e1 arm\u00e1da 1919-1945
\nwww.valka.cz<\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

\u539f\u6587: http:\/\/ftr.wot-news.com\/2013\/06\/17\/h … \u7ee7\u7eed\u9605\u8bfb →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":23,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[3,24],"tags":[94],"class_list":["post-1987","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-world-of-tank","category-24","tag-94"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/xvm.garphy.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1987","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/xvm.garphy.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/xvm.garphy.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/xvm.garphy.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/23"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/xvm.garphy.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=1987"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/xvm.garphy.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1987\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/xvm.garphy.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=1987"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/xvm.garphy.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=1987"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/xvm.garphy.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=1987"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}